ROTS Sidious vs ROTJ Vader (sabers only)

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dathvada

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Poll ROTS Sidious vs ROTJ Vader (sabers only) (19 votes)

Sidious 74%
Vader 26%

Pure sabers fight (augmentation and precog are allowed, but not TK, lightning, or other similar force abilities).

Fight takes place in 2nd Death Star throne room.

Starts 20 meters apart.

In character.

To the death.

Who wins?

 • 
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hellothere5432

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#2 hellothere5432  Online

Sidious. Can keep up in the force augmentation department and far better agility and skill.

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SheevSmacker

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Vader stomp

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ComicGirl21

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I wanna say narrowly Palps, but honestly did not expect Vader to lose this poll so badly.

Most SW fans I encounter on CV put ANH Vader already above all prequel characters altogether. Well, who knew.

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frozen

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#5 frozen  Moderator  Online

I wanna say narrowly Palps, but honestly did not expect Vader to lose this poll so badly.

Most SW fans I encounter on CV put ANH Vader already above all prequel characters altogether. Well, who knew.

Most of the canon community have ROTJ Vader above ROTS Yoda in an all out fight, going by the last thread. So same should be true for ROTS Sidious. But I think making it sabers only may tilt it for Palpatine.

KFV has a lot of accolades putting him at titan level, and the suit Vader quotes which scale him above his pre suit self are all in regards to the force.

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SonOfDarkness

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Sidious wins based on feats. Vader wins based on statements.

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ComicGirl21

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@frozen said:
@comicgirl21 said:

I wanna say narrowly Palps, but honestly did not expect Vader to lose this poll so badly.

Most SW fans I encounter on CV put ANH Vader already above all prequel characters altogether. Well, who knew.

Most of the canon community have ROTJ Vader above ROTS Yoda in an all out fight, going by the last thread. So same should be true for ROTS Sidious. But I think making it sabers only may tilt it for Palpatine.

KFV has a lot of accolades putting him at titan level, and the suit Vader quotes which scale him above his pre suit self are all in regards to the force.

Wait I thought KFV was Vader at his prime. So ROTJ is actually above KFV in the force?

...Wait would that make old Ben from ANH above ROTS Yoda? Mind. Blown.

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frozen

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#8  Edited By frozen  Moderator  Online

@comicgirl21:

KFV is argued as his prime in Legends. In Disney canon, suit Vader has a number of sources scaling him above his pre suit self in the force (and almost none saying otherwise). He also has far superior force feats. So yes in Disney canon, prime suit Vader beats KFV.

As for ANH Ben, disney have taken a different approach on that fight. Vader was confirmed to have been very cautious in that fight due to mustafar. The novel From A Certain Point of View also states from Obi Wan's POV that he had no chance of beating Vader and that he was getting driven back and dominated. So it seems Disney re-contextualied this fight as Vader having dominated hard.

So I don't think ANH Ben can beat ROTS Yoda. Though ROTJ Luke certainly has a shot, given that he scales to ROTJ Vader per a number of sources. ROTJ Luke is actually > ROTS Anakin in Disney.

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Lord_Tenebrous

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#9 Lord_Tenebrous  Online

Darth Sidious wears Vader down by sending in, one after the other:

  1. Obi-Wan Kenobi
  2. Eeth Koth
  3. Ahsoka Tano
  4. Old Maul
  5. Old Ben
  6. Jedi Padawan Luke Skywalker
  7. Commander Karbin
  8. Qi'ra
  9. Jedi Knight Luke Skywalker

And then, Palpatine sends in Padme's handmaidens to finish the job.

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Uhu123

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#10  Edited By Uhu123

I honestly wouldn't even favor Vader over Anakin in a pure duel, let alone Sidious.

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frozen

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#11  Edited By frozen  Moderator  Online
@uhu123 said:

I honestly wouldn't even favor Vader over Anakin in a pure duel, let alone Sidious.

He could beat Anakin in sabers. He has knowledge on Anakin's style, whereas the same is not true in reverse.

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Uhu123

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@frozen said:

@uhu123 said:

I honestly wouldn't even favor Vader over Anakin in a pure duel, let alone Sidious.

He could beat Anakin in sabers. He has knowledge on Anakin's style, whereas the same is not true in reverse.

Probably, my point is that I don't see Vader as a vastly superior duelist to Anakin, his saber feats might actually be worse tbh, certainly nowhere close to someone like Sidious.

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BreakOfDawn

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@uhu123 said:

@frozen said:

@uhu123 said:

I honestly wouldn't even favor Vader over Anakin in a pure duel, let alone Sidious.

He could beat Anakin in sabers. He has knowledge on Anakin's style, whereas the same is not true in reverse.

Probably, my point is that I don't see Vader as a vastly superior duelist to Anakin, his saber feats might actually be worse tbh, certainly nowhere close to someone like Sidious.

He's not superior in saber skill at all.

No Caption Provided

Even power is debatable. Anakin has repeatedly shown that he can tap into far greater levels of power than he is normally capable of under situations where he's put under a great deal of stress or emotional turmoil.

OT: Sidious clowns him. He's better in every way.

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crclopezos

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Sidious wins.

He killed 3 masters in seconds. (and each Master was Grievous level)

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MCU-Defender333

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Yawn Sidious wins again.

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Hody_Jones

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if this is Legends than Sidious honestly 10/10's in a very mild manner.

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donloota

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#17  Edited By donloota

Vader grew in power but his lightsaber skills declined, Palpatine should win comfortably.

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donloota

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Darth Sidious wears Vader down by sending in, one after the other:

  1. Obi-Wan Kenobi
  2. Eeth Koth
  3. Ahsoka Tano
  4. Old Maul
  5. Old Ben
  6. Jedi Padawan Luke Skywalker
  7. Commander Karbin
  8. Qi'ra
  9. Jedi Knight Luke Skywalker

And then, Palpatine sends in Padme's handmaidens to finish the job.

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HellfireUnit

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Sidious is vastly better both in EU and Canon.

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ComicGirl21

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@frozen: Thanks man :)

So what you're saying is, in canon KFV in his prime in dueling and ROTJ Vader is his prime in the force. Wouldn't KFV have a shot at winning then still? Kinda like Mace was able to beat Sidious?

What I'm saying is - Not many fights end with force abuse being a deciding factor. Unless your power gap is so massive it's a one sided stomp (Yoda and Ventress comes to mind) I don't think having the edge in power is an advantage with higher value than superior skill.

If we made a list of all force user fights in SW canon and roughly divided them into two groups - superior force power being a deciding factor and skill being one, I'm pretty sure skill would win by like 7/10 ratio bare minimum.

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frozen

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#21 frozen  Moderator  Online

@comicgirl21:

Thanks man :)

No worries.

So what you're saying is, in canon KFV in his prime in dueling and ROTJ Vader is his prime in the force.

That's correct.

Wouldn't KFV have a shot at winning then still? Kinda like Mace was able to beat Sidious?

No, I don't think so. The power gap between pre suit Vader and prime suit Vader is noticeably wider than Mace vs Sidious (Mace has force power confirmed on par with Yoda). Vader also knows exactly how Anakin fights, whereas the same isn't true in reverse. Also even if pre suit is more skilled, suit Vader has superior force augmentation in addition to TK.

What I'm saying is - Not many fights end with force abuse being a deciding factor.

While that's true, the majority of Vader's fights end up with him relying on the force lol. He force spams most of the time (Korbin, Ashoka, Momin etc).

Unless your power gap is so massive it's a one sided stomp (Yoda and Ventress comes to mind) I don't think having the edge in power is an advantage with higher value than skill

It's not like Yoda v Ventress, but its noticeable enough. Vader had linear growth in the force following ROTS. Couple that with knowing Anakins style and he wins out. Anakin also just doesn't have many feats in canon.